tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post6554183222688775911..comments2009-06-03T16:21:36.390-04:00John Nortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01252665097539551066noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-37944238172108089002009-02-11T16:37:00.000-05:002009-02-11T16:37:00.000-05:00i was a member of the Legion for 7 years, This completely undoes everything that is the Legion. They built the order around FR.MM and he was idolized and held up as the end all be all of the order. It is not only the letters that have lost their meaning but the very Constitution of the Legion, the Norms and Directives (they are secret by the way), even the very culture of the Legion. It is all undone, full of lies, deceit, and abuse of power. It is impossible for MM to have been a lone wolf, other legionaries must have known. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. Fr John Devlin should tell us what he knows, he never left MM's side.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-84779527453534560422009-02-10T12:57:00.000-05:002009-02-10T12:57:00.000-05:00I believe that Dominic's defense of the RC and Fr. Maciel is skewed due to his being too close to the issue to see things objectively. As I see it Dominic's advice should be taken with this fact in mind. It may be very bad advice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-43306640848838159132009-02-09T16:14:00.000-05:002009-02-09T16:14:00.000-05:00Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>We can agree on two things -- we are interested in what happens now and we love souls. I don't doubt your good will; I am merely concerned with your methods.<BR/><BR/>Of course, if these men were abused and were maligned after seeking redress, then the crime is aggravated. But that begs the question, doesn't it?? We do not know if they were abused and so we do not know if they are liars or victims twice over. We do not know.<BR/><BR/>I find your CSI analogy interesting as I enjoy those programs. I must point out, however, that it is evidence, proof that finally leads to the truth--that is the lesson of these shows. The cops and CSI's in these shows engage in all kinds of speculation and many times the real criminal is not the person first suspected and accused. Connecting the dots implies a logical progression that leads directly to the truth. So until we have proof, until we know the truth, until we can really connect the dots in a definitive way, then it can not be prudent either to accuse or exhonerate MM of the abuse accusations against him. Is it possible that he committed these acts? Absolutely, but I do not know so I will not condemn him for this or the LC for covering it up. As I mentioned before, if it is proven that MM did abuse young people(if there is definitve corroboration of the allegations), then this must be made public and the victims must receive a huge apology and the LC's full support!<BR/><BR/>I cannot speak to what the cited LC priests know or interpret their statements as admissions of guilt. Do they know or are they assuming? That is a fair question. On what, exactly are they basing their "apoligies"? Just because it comes from an LC priest does not mean that they have actually connected the dots to definitively discover the truth. Are they speaking on behalf of the Legion or on their own behalf? Based on the interviews I have read, it is not clear, although the apologies seem to be unofficial.<BR/><BR/>On a personal note, I am sorry that you have been falsely judged. It is something over which one has so little control and can ruin a person's life. I know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-16658503704592624092009-02-09T15:36:00.000-05:002009-02-09T15:36:00.000-05:00As someone who has been falsely judged, I hope you can put yourself in the shoes of 20+ accusers who were disbelieved.<BR/><BR/>How would you like to blow the whistle on someone who has abused you and be treated unjustly, called a liar, in effect? You say you know what it feels like to be falsely judged. <BR/><BR/>This is not about looking at MM's other sins, nor to condemn MM,but to remember to finally be merciful to those who were very likely victims all along. It's about love of souls. I love their souls too. Doesn't the Legion? Will they ever say so? <BR/><BR/>This is not an episode of CSI where there is going to be DNA evidence from 50 years ago. Connecting the dots means it could well have happened as the accusers said it did. That is enough evidence for me to want to see the Legion apologize. <BR/><BR/>Some LCs have connected those dots. Father Owen Kearns, Father Richard Gill, the former commncations director for the Legion, Jay Dunlap; these men have all made apologies to those victims.Father Thomas Williams connects those dots in his interview on EWTN on Friday Feb. 6th. <BR/>MM's sins are in the past. It is what the LofC does now that interests me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-85795623602839048472009-02-09T14:37:00.000-05:002009-02-09T14:37:00.000-05:00Far from lionizing Anonymous, I find his willingness to judge (i.e., "connect the dots") MM alarming. He says that making a distinction between an allegation and a proven fact is splitting hairs! It is this kind of reasoning that makes me so concerned. To say that because MM had an affair and there are men who accuse him of abusing them means that he must be guilty of sexual abuse is simply an assumption (not merely connecting the dots)--one that no Christian should make for fear that we will judge someone falsely. If he is guilty of sexual abuse, that should be brought out into the light and the victims should be supported. But that has not been proven, only debated.<BR/><BR/>Also, why do we have this need to rush to judgment at all? I too am not satisfied with the Legion's response, but we in the modern world want every sordid detail explained to us in full and we want it yesterday.<BR/><BR/>As someone who has been slandered and falsely judged myself, I am very sensitive about how quick we are to judge others. I pray that you, Anonymous, are never rashly judged or falsely accused of doing something. MM made some serious mistakes that are in the light. If other allegations are proven, then bring those into the light too. But what good will come from speculating about his other sins at this point?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-29930979864112012162009-02-09T13:00:00.000-05:002009-02-09T13:00:00.000-05:00<B> please save the church right now today</B><BR/><BR/>If you wish to, you can make safe each and every young person entrusted to you. You can make safe every inch of every church facility, every school, every seminary, every rectory, every chapel, everywhere in the world. If you wish.<BR/><BR/>But you do not seem to know you have a building on fire. Perhaps you think you need not act with urgency because Jesus has promised your success. <BR/><BR/>You have a responsibility to protect the young people in your care, and this duty is absolute and unconditional. Thankfully we do not all have to succeed in reaching sainthood in this world; but there are some battles you can not lose. You must either succeed or perish trying.<BR/><BR/>Please don't attempt to hide behind "God uses all things for good." perhaps he does but this is no defense against the charge of reckless endangerment.<BR/><BR/>If good sane Catholics went out right this moment, and took up a watch in all parts of every building, these decades of predatory rape will end. This hour. If you want to stop it, you can stop it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-12465290336756034432009-02-08T23:22:00.000-05:002009-02-08T23:22:00.000-05:00Yes, it is true, they were allegations, not necessarily proven by the Vatican. however, let's look at the facts. More than 20 but less than 100 guys made accusations of abuse against MM. MM denied it. The LCs defended MM, saying he could never have done anything like that, MM was such a holy man. Now we learn that MM in fact was capable of deceptiveness vis a vis the mistress as well as financial wrongdoing. <BR/><BR/>I personally have no trouble connecting the dots. It is more probable to me that MM also lied about the past abuse of seminarians than it is likely that more than 20 but less than 100 guys are all liars. The only proven liar so far in all this is MM. <BR/><BR/>Go ahead and split hairs over "allegations" of abuse versus actual proven abuse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-89569534803815350732009-02-08T22:27:00.000-05:002009-02-08T22:27:00.000-05:00As a medical professional and RC I am surprised that discussions about Fr. Maciel's health issues have not been advanced. Catholic teaching discourages our judging of the state of a soul. I particularly find that dictate appropriate when an individual has suffered neurological damage. I do know that Fr. Maciel suffered from a brain tumor and possibly a head injury from a car wreck--I remember something about a metal plate in his head. I do not know the chronology of these events, but, it is possible that some of his problems with inhibition are the result of brain damage. I reserve judgment as to his culpability. As to the reports of pedophilia, to date there seem to be almost as many retracted statements (I recall a death bed retraction witnessed by a physician) and sworn statements from individual who were offered payment to falsely accuse MM of sexual advances. If the present leaders are volunteering information about his mistress, I trust that other issues will be addressed, if they exist. I suspect the LC are still reeling from the discoveries. In the end, it will be the CHURCH whose guidance I rely on. The Holy See approved of this Congregation and Lay Movement and it's Charism as being inspired by the Holy Spirit. <BR/>It is Christ and the Church, after all, that RC and LC serve, not the founder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-72019525259834402982009-02-08T20:13:00.000-05:002009-02-08T20:13:00.000-05:00Thanks to responding to my request for information. What I saw on those news links were "allegations". I know that there have been horrible allegations against Fr. Maciel, I'm wondering if the Vatican ever substantiated them. Thanks for any help you can give.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-58941229747977065072009-02-08T16:30:00.000-05:002009-02-08T16:30:00.000-05:00Here's a link: <BR/><BR/>http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn051806.htmAn Empty Clay Pothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10486910661835205975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-60460903521533935482009-02-08T15:19:00.000-05:002009-02-08T15:19:00.000-05:00"More than 20, less than 100"<BR/><BR/>http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/01/local/me-maciel1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-33206068528307106872009-02-08T14:29:00.000-05:002009-02-08T14:29:00.000-05:00I wasn't aware that the Vatican had ever said that MM abused "more than 20 but less than 100" seminarians. Can you tell me where you got that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-91082485163784141142009-02-08T12:11:00.000-05:002009-02-08T12:11:00.000-05:00Re: the Schizophrenia comment, and any other insinuation that Maciel was too sick to comprehend his own actions. <BR/><BR/>So, he was too sick to comprehend his own actions, but not so sick to cover his tracks?<BR/><BR/>Right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-78831330457270124872009-02-08T10:59:00.000-05:002009-02-08T10:59:00.000-05:00Dominic, respectfully, how can you say harm will not come? Harm has already come, and visited here for decades. Harm has already ruined lives and has left this world without ever for one moment having to face justice. I understand that you believe, but I don't see how you can say, harm will not come...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-56232599448010625402009-02-08T00:43:00.000-05:002009-02-08T00:43:00.000-05:00I would like to encourage all RC members to maintain your faith in RC and know that it is truly the work of God, regardless of how it's founder may have behaved. Please continue reading the spirituality, because those letters are letters from God to each of you. Fr Maciel was merely the instrument used to put them into writing, much like a typewritter or pencil. Without those letters there is no RC. Fr Maciel's writings cannot be separated from RC without destroying it. The key to living fruitful lives as RC members is to take those letters and unite them to your hearts. Put aside the actions of the man who wrote them and look with faith into the meaning of the letters. Fr Maciel may have let many people down, but there is a group of LCs who love you, fight for you, and suffer deeply for you on a daily basis so that these riches will be accessible to all of you. For many of us, serving you has been the great joy of our lives. These LCs are indeed your true heroes and without a doubt, the vast majority of them are genuine saints. If you only knew the sacrifices that these men make on a daily basis for you and how many pray for you by name each day. The insecurity, confusion, and outrage many feel is understandable, but this is the time for you to ask yourself what you truly believe and go from there. Any individuals harmed by Fr Maciel's actions will be cared for. But realize that this affair is something that our Lord has allowed to occur so that the Movement will be purified; those who do not truly believe will end up going their own way, while those who recognize the gift of the Holy Spirit will joyfully receive it and flourish. The faults of men do not diminish the truth of God's words. PJP2 once said that the founders of religious orders are the successors to the prophets of the old testament. This will always be true of Fr Maciel, whether we like it or not. Let me ask one question though, if it were revealed that Fr M had psychizophrenia would that make anyone feel differently? You can be certain that under no circumstances was the author of RC spirituality a man devoted to sin. He may have fallen once or multiple times or been afflicted by illness, but RC spirituality cannot be faked. It is as real as it gets. It's easy to criticize what you don't understand. Put your faith in Christ and believe. He will not allow harm to come to those who have believed.Dominicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-28164461177552269542009-02-07T23:20:00.000-05:002009-02-07T23:20:00.000-05:00Thank God! That is all I can say: thank God for "Anonymous" and his statement. With breath and sense like this, perhaps there is hope for the Legion and Regnum Christi. Thank God. I cannot tell you enough how grateful I am for this person's integrity and courage to grapple with MM's scandalous actions. Thank God. I am going to pray hard for this person tonight, that the Lord would continue to shower him with blessing upon blessing. Thank God for this person's stunning example of true "Gospel Charity." Thank God.An Empty Clay Pothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10486910661835205975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-73490438751198267152009-02-07T20:33:00.000-05:002009-02-07T20:33:00.000-05:00I am RC. <BR/><BR/>I am sick of responses (many, I suspect, from ardent RCs) which say "judge not, we're all sinners". I can certainly be disillusioned with MM without it being called "judgment". We may all be sinners, but I do not put myself in the same class as MM. I strive sincerely to grow in virtue, overcome my vice. I examine my conscience daily, and I have developed the sensitive conscience RC members strive for.When I sin, it is something that pains my sensitive conscience, and I confess it, every 2 weeks, and I genuinely and sincerely work to overcome that sin. MM's relationship with this woman was not isolated. It was not a one time sin which he then confessed and tried to overcome. He lived it in prolonged secrecy. The greater number of offences by MM against young men (reported by the Vatican to be more than 20 but less than 100)shows another prolonged period of deception, and then, when "caught" (so to speak) his denials inflicted further harm to victims, and induced the L of C to unwittingly victimize the victims through a strenuous defence of the founder. This represents a puzzling but unmistakeable lack of intent to live in communion with God on the part of the founder. I am trying to make sense of it, not judge it. <BR/><BR/>Why does this revictimization of victims (by treating them as liars and failing to offer support to them) not bother some of my RC brothers and sisters? Have you no mercy? And now, knowing what they know, why are you not outraged at limp responses from the L of C, like Scarafini's statement that the LofC has no plans to apologize to any alleged abuse victims, for "surely they have found the help they need by now" - Huh? Callous much? <BR/><BR/>Another one I hear is how other orders have had flawed founders. What? Are we resorting to relativism now? I guess I can say "I shouldn't have gossipped, but don't judge me, everyone does it!" <BR/><BR/>I have even heard people say "look at Peter, he denied Christ 3 times!" In Peter's case, I think HE was sorry, sorry enough that Jesus said "On this rock I will build my church". Not quite the same as if Peter had denied his denial, and kept right on hurting Christ, right? <BR/><BR/>I beg you, before you defend MM, read the most recent and thoughtful letters from Fr Thomas Berg, LC, Fr Richard Gill, LC, Jay Dunlap, Fr Owen Kearns, as well as the EWTN interview of Fr Thomas Williams, LC and Fr Jonathan Morris, LC. There is really no need for any RCs to feel a need to act cultish in their defence of MM. Our own priests are beginning to speak out. <BR/><BR/>Use your God given ability to think and reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-14939614915640077432009-02-07T18:20:00.000-05:002009-02-07T18:20:00.000-05:00Sorry, I meant "Jonah."Pilgrimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-29036001785608727222009-02-07T18:15:00.000-05:002009-02-07T18:15:00.000-05:00I am not Catholic (i.e., not Roman Catholic, not Byzantine Rite Catholic, etc., etc.). FWIW I am a co-operator of Opus Dei. I know extremely little of LC, having not heard of it until the recent events. If my question is ill framed or inappropriate, please ignore it in charitable silence.<BR/><BR/>The question is this: In the various blogs and news items I have read, people have been discussing formal organizational actions (taking pictures down, reorganizing LC, dissolving LC) and some individual actions (asking forgiveness, etc.). What I have not seen mentioned is some sort of corporate spiritual response. The model that pops into my head (probably inappropriately) is Ninevah upon hearing Job's prophetic words there -- sackcloth and ashes. Are there Catholic practices or precedents or traditions for some sort of whole-group public mourning, public repentance, abject prayer for guidance, etc., not just for one Sunday or something but perhaps for forty days?<BR/><BR/>I do not intend the question to be hostile. It just seems to me that there is possibly another realm of action available, towards which I am clumsily pointing. But I am an outsider and am not an expert on anything and my words should be charitably ignored if they seem harmful.Pilgrimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-17691061253745569922009-02-07T14:12:00.000-05:002009-02-07T14:12:00.000-05:00I do understand that Legion answers and comments by others are intended as sincere. I understand that many are expressing pain.<BR/><BR/>Let me say as a friend, little of this rings true. It is no comfort, to say "all men are sinners" or "he was flawed." Any virtue of this man's writings and thoughts do not lighten the weight of his crimes: quite the opposite, his offenses are magnified.<BR/><BR/>You do not convey Christ's mercy or forgiveness. You convey an incompetence, an inability to safeguard young persons entrusted to you. I hope the League will do the only honorable things left to it, to donate the proceeds of your assets to your victims, to vigorously investigate this man's accomplices and dissolve his organization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-69831242493703255082009-02-07T14:11:00.000-05:002009-02-07T14:11:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Trinahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15196359499884126590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-28507898976204170082009-02-07T11:59:00.000-05:002009-02-07T11:59:00.000-05:00Why does everyone say they feel sorry for the LC/RC and not the victims of Fr. Maciel? They were victimized twice, first by Maciel and again by the LC and Maciel's high profile defenders who accused them of false witness. Jason Berry and Gerald Renner broke this story years ago in the pages of the National Catholic Reporter. They were repeatedly denounced as agents of anti-Catholic animus. The LC/RC owe them and Maciel's victims a big apology.Stevehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15067430344421078039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-68624322935779489682009-02-07T08:58:00.000-05:002009-02-07T08:58:00.000-05:00Well said Dominic. I am quite concerned with the state of Fr. Maciel's soul - actually. Our Lady in many of her appearances agonizes over and urges us to pray for the state of the priest's soul. No one but the Lord knows how Fr MM died, how he lived, and to what extent his failings pervaded his own personal life or the LC/RC's. I do know that he likely needs much prayer for his soul, as we would pray for any priest who has died. I have never been a member of RC, but have known many of the LC's and RC's. Although I've had my own personal doubts about this particular movement, this news saddened me greatly.Sarah Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-31713485211064042472009-02-07T08:52:00.000-05:002009-02-07T08:52:00.000-05:00Father Thomas Williams, Father Jonathon Morris and Dominic,<BR/>Thank you for your words of wisdom in this difficult time.<BR/>I have been a member of RC for 20 years and am very grateful for all the gifts I have received through Christ and the Legion.<BR/>Father Morris and Father Thomas reminded every viewer on EWTN last night that we follow Christ as our leader. Father Maciel was the instrument God used to bring us all closer to him and the Church.<BR/>I pray for all our priests, consecrated, and RC members. God will continue to bless us and help us to heal and grow.<BR/>Love Christ, Serve People, Build the Church.Theresahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16884658283699887840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7349257421667969689.post-90642738996715381682009-02-07T00:17:00.000-05:002009-02-07T00:17:00.000-05:00Dominic thank you for your defense of the Legionaries.<BR/>I have been a member of Regnum Christi for 20 years. I can not imagine my life without the Legion since I have become closer to Christ, the Blessed Virgin, and the Church through the movement.<BR/>I could only say wonderful things about Father Maciel.<BR/>He made a mistake and it is only God that can judge him for that.<BR/>The sad thing is that people so quickly forget how many times that Christ has forgiven them. As for me I am a sinner and am thankful that I have a loving and merciful God always ready to forgive me.<BR/>As for the rest "Whatever measure you judge a man"... and "Those of you without any sin you may cast the first stone."<BR/>As for me I will continue to love the Legion and trust that Father Alvaro will lead us all closer to Christ. <BR/>Love Christ, Serve People, Build the ChurchTheresahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16884658283699887840noreply@blogger.com